[00:12:45] *** Joins: spacepirate (75c8f0f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.200.240.249) [00:15:35] Guys, is the HX Github org, mod-only? [00:23:58] no it's open for anybody as read-only [00:24:13] there's an invite heroku somewhere… [00:25:20] Link me? [00:30:04] it's the biggest button on http://wearehx.github.io [00:30:04] Title: WE ARE HX [00:30:23] err the bottom-most button [00:32:36] Lmao, didn't check that website hahah [00:32:52] Thanks guys [02:27:27] *** Quits: spacepirate (75c8f0f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.200.240.249) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [02:42:23] *** Quits: majora (~majora@205.204.23.189) (Quit: Leaving) [12:45:51] *** Joins: majora (~majora@205.204.23.189) [12:45:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +v majora [13:34:20] *** Quits: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [13:37:22] *** Joins: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) [16:22:46] *** Quits: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:28:51] *** Joins: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) [16:33:52] *** Quits: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) (Quit: Kernel update?) [16:38:28] *** Joins: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) [16:45:47] *** Quits: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) (Quit: Kernel update?) [16:47:53] *** Joins: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) [17:14:28] So... I guess Shane is kinda right she could have been asking about Hack the programming language... [17:14:42] Though I don't think she was [17:20:29] lol [17:21:31] okay [17:27:23] that guy is just trying to pick a fight [17:27:25] it's a shit post [17:29:16] not gonna close it [17:29:41] can't afford to incite anything [17:29:52] >to me the fact that the mod shutting down a post type posts is absolutely fucked especially because you're all so quick about it [17:29:58] >sorry, "type posts get the most likes" [17:32:31] yea don't close it [17:32:37] i'm just saying this guy should be on your watch list [17:32:43] for shitposting [17:33:49] apparently he's scared we're bulding a community of gatekeeprs [17:34:17] that's fine [17:34:19] he can leave then [17:34:23] no one's forcing him to join [17:34:36] yeah I agree [17:34:46] or alternatively [17:34:51] but I don't wanna tell the kid to fuck off lmao [17:34:53] hang out in IRC and/or run for admin [17:35:03] we talk about all these things here [17:35:08] I know [17:35:14] we post about how we make all our decisions here [17:35:18] remmeber we told him [17:35:23] and he was like that's biased or something [17:35:31] I don't rmemeber his direct verbiage [17:35:35] well it's an open protocol [17:37:50] >sure but what happened to me is this same thing [17:37:50] nobody asked me what I meant, I had good intentions, and was shut down and everyone loved it [17:37:51] maybe if the person has said shitty things before but that was my second post in the group and the first one was a legit and good discussion [17:37:51] I'm scared that you're building a community of gatekeepers [17:37:51] people who are quick to assume I'll intent [17:37:52] and even [17:37:54] conflate their hypothesis of ill intent with reality [17:37:56] it's nazi Germany level fucked except intellectual murder instead of physical murder [17:39:49] lol wtf [17:39:53] i think the verdict on that previous post was even if we knew what he meant, it was a shit post [17:41:03] yeah I agree [17:41:10] but no one did know what he meant [17:41:16] it's v complicated [17:41:19] he stopped pming me [17:42:47] i think you're worrying to much [17:42:53] and you kind of sound like you feel bad [17:42:55] dont [17:43:26] ok ok [17:49:44] wait, we have meeting today, right? [17:49:46] iangcarroll are you following the thread [17:49:47] and yes [17:49:53] Ari si commenting on a few things via github [17:49:53] not really [17:49:54] or did [17:50:10] damn it... nobody ever created the event [17:50:22] i'll make it [17:50:27] Sorry, have been way over my head with work [17:50:36] I actually wanted to talk about the meeting [17:50:42] so pause a sec [17:50:46] kk [17:50:50] Purpose was to merge content policy [17:50:53] it's not done [17:51:02] There are entire sections that say todo [17:51:35] there are more things on the agenda than that [17:51:42] but i think that was one of the reasons we wanted to have one [17:52:04] Where's the agenda? [17:52:13] oh, found it [17:52:13] https://github.com/wearehx/meetings/blob/meeting-2/agendas/meeting-01-19-2016.md [17:52:14] Title: meetings/meeting-01-19-2016.md at meeting-2 · wearehx/meetings · GitHub [17:52:45] subgroups is not urgent but it's a relatively big one [17:53:50] Guys lay of Shane on FB [17:53:54] *off [17:54:32] pretty sure majora is the only one talking with him rn [17:55:07] gsingh93 is publically [17:55:55] no, i'm not going to lay off [17:55:59] I know him personally - he's into psychology and stuff and probably actually found it interesting that there could have been an unseen double meaning to the post [17:55:59] we're not doing anything wrong [17:56:11] his post was passive agressive [17:56:11] You're talking down at him [17:56:17] really? how so? [17:56:22] It wasn't passive agressive [17:56:28] totally was [17:56:31] read my message [17:56:34] up ^^^ [17:56:43] the double meaning? [17:56:46] Yes [17:56:54] He's not trying to be passive agressive [17:57:05] look. he's pissed that his post was closed a while ago. now he sees other posts being closed and he's venting about it [17:57:05] You are being non-passively aggressive in response [17:57:15] And you know this how? [17:57:18] PMs [17:57:31] Please let us deal with it [17:57:41] i'm allowed to comment on this post [17:57:41] attacking him publically isn't cool [17:57:47] no one's attacking anyone [17:58:19] If I was a new member and I saw the way you're talking to him right now publically, I would be scared to post, full stop. [17:58:36] Please back off [17:58:51] So we can't even have a discussion about this on facebook? [17:59:13] if we disagree in opinion, the conversation obviously isn't going to be friendly, but no one's attacking anyone [17:59:41] please don't tell people to PM the mods [17:59:51] they need to discuss it in IRC with the mods [18:00:04] no one told him to PM mods [18:00:09] oic [18:00:12] (I prefer fb message because mobile...but...) [18:00:15] I misinterprated my bad [18:00:22] You told him to, didn't you? [18:00:26] nope [18:01:01] " [18:01:01] If your post is closed, it's not deleted. Just PM the mods if you think there's been a mistake and get it reopened if there was a mistake. [18:01:02] "but if I want to make a meta post I have to reference the post I'm talking about????????" [18:01:07] That was you ^ [18:01:09] so from what I've read so far... we need the meeting and another agenda item... [18:01:27] no problems with me making the event? [18:01:35] oh [18:01:39] that comment [18:01:46] yea, i'm not used to saying IRC [18:02:55] kk, so I'm gonna make that event now [18:04:36] do we need an agenda item for shane's comments about HX? [18:04:45] sure [18:04:47] this kid needs to review [18:04:58] but i think we should also try to limit meetings to no more than 1 hour [18:05:09] if they go over we should schedule another one [18:05:20] majora: ++ [18:05:37] we might need to shelve subgroups then if we're gonna talk about enforcement and shane's posts/the hack post [18:05:38] I like this comment he made: also can we institute a policy where the mods aren't allowed to make comments that any content here is "shit" but rather only refer to the content policy and let that speak for itself? [18:05:46] I want someone to post it in on that thread [18:05:47] CC majora [18:06:16] I think it's v hard to do that because then we'd have the content policy cover every situation where new ones arise all the time [18:06:38] also policies move relatively slow so it's hard to do that [18:07:01] i mean, the content and admin policies are supposed to support every decision we make [18:07:10] even if it's a blanket 'defer to admin judgement' statement [18:07:14] Specifically in reference to saying something is shit. Just don't. Say it's offtopic, or repetitive, or whatever [18:07:20] but be professional [18:07:27] +1 ian [18:07:33] well saying it's not shit is me lying to them [18:07:55] but I will do better not to [18:08:17] so regarding content policy [18:08:25] i don't know if you read my comment yesterday [18:08:31] but i'm going to need some help [18:08:46] i saw, I'm gonna try and reword it [18:09:01] ty [18:10:09] any particular things you had trouble with? [18:10:15] i haven't started yet [18:10:25] but curious [18:10:52] yea [18:11:01] so i started with Announcements [18:11:04] the first thing there [18:11:27] but concisely specifying what that is is tricky, while giving some examples is easy [18:11:39] because announcements could be hackathon announcements, your own projects [18:11:45] some program people can sign up for [18:11:47] your startup [18:11:49] etc. [18:12:05] the biggest problem i see with the content policy is it's impossible to be 100% specific [18:12:35] so when people say point me exactly to where this violates the content policy [18:12:39] we can get close [18:12:44] Indeed [18:12:47] but there's always going to be some interpretation [18:13:00] can I turn the content policy into an RFC-style doc [18:13:31] actually, I might just prefer using the RFC for usage of MUST/SHOULD/etc [18:13:51] but [18:13:54] i'd have to see how it turns out [18:14:00] a lot of different formats could work [18:14:37] regardless of my forrays into RFC style, is it a bad idea to say admin judgement prevails if the post's content is not allowed or disallowed? [18:15:04] i think that's fine [18:15:07] because again [18:15:13] we're not going to be 100% accurate [18:15:19] and you're an admin for a reason [18:15:34] in the admin policy, i said in these cases the policy should be amended as soon as possible [18:15:52] if it is possible to do so, that is [18:19:12] very minor nitpick, but we should license our content and admin policies to be freely redistributable [18:19:22] MIT/public domain/etc [18:19:44] i'd be fine with PD for this [18:21:22] AGPL [18:21:29] lolol [18:21:32] ofc frank [18:21:39] I've dropped subgroups from the agenda, added shane's questions and ban logs per SCKelemen. [18:21:49] s/added/and added [18:21:49] iangcarroll probably meant: I've dropped subgroups from the agenda, and added shane's questions and ban logs per SCKelemen. [18:23:06] i'm going to respond to his questions now (on FB) which will ideally speed up going through them during the meeting [18:24:06] he claims to not want to use IRC/Github [18:24:08] again [18:24:14] which is fine but we shouldn't cater to it [18:24:34] afaik, the GPL text is all rights reserved but freely redistributable [18:24:43] we should not use the GPL [18:24:49] I was jk about that [18:24:54] I mean for the *text* [18:24:58] oic [18:26:08] *** Joins: kuler51 (c7c94086@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.199.201.64.134) [18:26:19] Hi [18:26:48] yeah the *text* of the GPL is all rights reserved, probably to prevent people from releasing ish under a modified GPL [18:27:37] also did we go through with making the GH org require 2fa [18:29:28] Please no [18:29:38] to which statement? [18:29:42] My phone is usually dead for days at a time [18:29:44] 2fa [18:29:46] oh, the 2fac [18:30:02] Unless I can use yubikey [18:30:08] which is probably a thing [18:30:08] lol, how do you survice with your phone dead half the time [18:30:23] I...um...live in the real world? [18:30:32] * vishwin has always been opposed to 2fac on fones out of principle [18:30:46] Lol I just have times that I'm at my computer and communicating with the world and times when I'm not [18:30:49] okay let's not get into this argument [18:31:07] with github you can enable 2fa with your yubikey but that only works for SSH key, you'd still need the code to log in [18:31:24] so I need a phone? [18:31:43] I use the google authenticator application for my GH 2fa [18:32:47] > real world [18:32:51] i'm sorry, i don't understand [18:32:59] i only exist inside IRC [18:33:12] lol [18:33:53] it's understandable [18:34:00] we need to figure this out more I guess [18:34:08] Easy fix to shane issue: ban meta posts [18:34:24] direct him to HX Meta [18:34:31] Can't complain about the platform [18:34:34] Because FB [18:38:21] as much as I'd like to move Shane's posts out of the FB group, it seems a bit unreasonable to move it to a group with only 17 members [18:39:24] there will be more Shanes though, so if there is a better way to move discourse out of the main group... [18:39:24] Advertise the group [18:39:38] s/discourse/moderation decision discourse [18:39:39] iangcarroll probably meant: there will be more Shanes though, so if there is a better way to move moderation decision discourse out of the main group... [18:39:41] I mentioned I didn't know the group existed until around the time of the last meeting [18:39:51] sticky it? [18:39:56] we need a new sticky anyway [18:40:11] I think that'd be awesome [18:40:13] also sidebar [18:40:29] But I think first and foremost it should be in the content policy [18:40:52] moving mod discussions to meta? [18:41:16] perhaps we should sticky meta for a bit and then add that [18:41:33] "you might but am I not allowed to say these things here? it is my preference" [18:41:38] what if he doesn't want to move to meta? [18:42:07] We put it in the content policy that it's off topic [18:42:21] So if he doesn't want to move he can't post in HX [18:42:27] (y) [18:42:33] you should answer his question with that then [18:42:36] I did [18:42:39] read the replies [18:43:29] ugh, there are too many comments [18:43:31] i lost it [18:43:45] has anyone noticed that FB sometimes hides the "read more comments" link? [18:43:55] or is this just adblock messing with FB? [18:44:13] Not adblock [18:44:21] It hides it when it's in your newsfeed [18:44:28] but not in the original location [18:44:32] it's irritating [18:45:05] *** Quits: wolfcore (~wolfcore@unaffiliated/wolfcore) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [18:45:27] I'll send you a screenshot on fb [18:46:22] yeah, i've been worried a bunch of comments were deleted because of this lol [18:46:46] Yeah lol then I always click on it and am like "phew" [18:49:44] *** Joins: wolfcore (~wolfcore@unaffiliated/wolfcore) [19:13:14] *** Quits: kuler51 (c7c94086@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.199.201.64.134) (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [19:30:54] well I mean could the lack of users in HX meta be moreso that people don't actually care to read these kinds of things? I don't think many people care for meta posts. Although visibility might still be an issue, I doubt there will be more than 20% of people that join HX meta [19:31:35] but these posts should definitely be moved to hx meta [19:32:07] yeah [19:32:11] my opinion is that if a user decides not to join HX Meta [19:32:13] that's fine [19:32:19] if there are 5 people in Meta [19:32:25] then those are the five people who care [19:32:33] yeah exactly [19:32:35] um, someone submitted a join request and they're "Member of 2,032 groups" [19:32:43] lolol [19:32:47] that sounds like spam... [19:33:08] lolwut [19:33:24] https://www.facebook.com/mamz.aimz.1 [19:33:26] Title: Mamz Aimz | Facebook [19:33:27] he has 4k friends too [19:51:44] yeah, spam [19:53:11] iit's almost time [19:54:36] woohoo [19:54:42] such excite [19:54:44] very hx [19:55:33] * arirawr drinks redbull to try to stay awake [19:56:17] is only 8pm [19:58:10] Long day dude [19:58:29] it happens [19:58:30] * arirawr thinks she's starting to get old [19:58:47] * arirawr enjoys the use of /me [19:59:17] * arirawr ponders speaking in the third person forever... [19:59:52] * iangcarroll hopes you don't [19:59:53] okay lets get this show on the road [20:00:08] one sec grabbing coffee [20:00:18] iangcarroll do you want to moderate? [20:00:45] or literally anyone who's not me [20:00:47] not particularly [20:02:11] majora? [20:02:18] what does doing such entail [20:02:18] lmao [20:02:33] move from topic to topic [20:02:37] sure [20:02:38] what I did last time [20:03:01] lemme merge it [20:03:33] https://github.com/wearehx/meetings/blob/master/agendas/meeting-01-19-2016.md [20:03:34] Title: meetings/meeting-01-19-2016.md at master · wearehx/meetings · GitHub [20:03:41] kk, back [20:03:43] i think we should rotate moderators [20:03:45] just because moderation isn't an easy job [20:03:47] and you guys should all get some experience [20:03:49] also, let's cap the meeting at 6 or a few minutes past 6 [20:03:51] can someone post the agenda here [20:03:56] someone just did :p [20:03:57] Just did [20:04:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o iangcarroll [20:04:17] https://github.com/wearehx/meetings/blob/master/agendas/meeting-01-19-2016.md [20:04:18] Title: meetings/meeting-01-19-2016.md at master · wearehx/meetings · GitHub [20:04:34] yes, let's cap the meeting at 6PST/9EST [20:04:36] *** iangcarroll changes topic to 'Hackers administration matters | https://github.com/wearehx | Mods are voiced | Agenda for current meeting: https://github.com/wearehx/meetings/blob/master/agendas/meeting-01-19-2016.md | Admin policy draft: https://git.io/v06vT' [20:04:41] *** iangcarroll sets mode: -o iangcarroll [20:04:55] oh, right [20:04:59] i keep forgetting about timezones [20:05:01] :P [20:05:05] leggo majora [20:05:08] ok [20:05:32] so [20:05:40] >Meeting procedure, agenda, and minutes (@???) [20:06:15] one note i have here is to make sure to make the next meetings PR after this one [20:06:39] ok [20:06:43] and if we want to do meeting minutes [20:06:47] will do [20:06:53] someone should make some short notes while the meeting is going on [20:06:55] if not [20:07:01] just posting IRC logs is fine with me [20:07:05] I think we should directly CP the IRC logs [20:07:06] *** Quits: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [20:07:13] (y) [20:07:20] other thoughts? [20:07:25] I think minutes should be made but it's so laborious [20:07:35] I have 3/4 done ones from last time [20:07:42] and no one helped [20:07:46] arirawr: i think it's because you made them after the fact [20:07:46] if we see users requesting them we can start, if not just send them through the logs [20:07:52] whenever we reach the end of the topic [20:08:00] just write one or two sentences on the conclusion [20:08:14] I was moderating, so I couldn't [20:08:16] ah [20:08:43] well, if someone wants to they can do it [20:08:47] i don't think it's mandatory [20:08:50] it would be nice though [20:09:24] ready to move on? [20:09:28] 👍 [20:09:34] >Merging policies round 2 (@gsingh93) [20:09:40] admin policy is looking good [20:09:48] need to add some minor stuff iangcarroll and arirawr mentioned [20:09:59] then i think we're in agreement it can be merged [20:10:06] I've v much agreed with all things I've seen [20:10:35] the issue right now is content policy [20:10:36] As long as the things I mentioned get in, gtg [20:10:51] iangcarroll: has volunteered to help clean it up [20:10:57] (y) [20:11:05] yup, I'll get on that tommorow [20:11:17] i need to make a few changes unrelated to what we were talking about [20:11:22] but if i do them later [20:11:26] we can just merge our changes [20:11:28] shouldn't be a problem [20:11:30] kk [20:12:00] so the other thing was how comprehensive the content policy should be, and how that's used in administrating posts [20:12:02] *** Joins: vishwin_ (~alliek@wikimedia/O) [20:12:05] we could leave this for later though [20:12:11] when we talk aobut shane's questions [20:12:16] *** Joins: vishwin60 (~chatzilla@wikimedia/O) [20:12:30] 3 vishwins [20:12:31] lol [20:12:38] lol yup [20:12:40] just got into work [20:12:48] i agree with how it is right now [20:12:57] aka wait for people in the computer lab to ask me questions XD [20:12:58] and what is that? [20:13:00] admins amending as we go along and using their discretion [20:13:06] but I'm a bit biased [20:13:10] so in the case that the admin policy doesn't cover something [20:13:23] and can't give a section number [20:13:24] * vishwin60 has no problem with discretion in the face of no caselaw [20:13:32] they can still close? [20:13:42] yes [20:13:53] i agree [20:13:55] agree or disagree everyone else [20:13:56] as you said, so long as the admin and content policy don't allow or deny it [20:14:10] Things that are closed and not in the policy should be talked about and put in policy the next meeting [20:14:20] cool [20:14:24] majora? [20:14:35] yup [20:14:40] 👍 [20:14:45] moving on then majora [20:14:49] > [20:14:50] Reported post Chrome extension (@gsingh93) [20:14:50] nono [20:14:53] Stahp [20:14:56] ok [20:15:01] Policy still isn't complete [20:15:07] which part? [20:15:08] when is it being completed? [20:15:15] iangcarroll: is fixing stuff up tomorrow [20:15:18] Jokes iirc [20:15:26] probably today or tomorrow [20:15:27] and Meta [20:15:35] do we need to discuss jokes? [20:15:39] i forget what we did last time [20:15:46] we discussed it last time [20:15:51] We discussed last time but nothing was added [20:15:53] i want to write up all those ideas [20:15:55] yes [20:16:03] today or tomorrow [20:16:25] I can't really preemptively agree to merging [20:16:32] we're not asking you to do that [20:16:36] kk [20:16:43] just for the admin policy [20:16:45] not for content [20:16:45] *** Joins: SamuelKelemen (442396c9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.35.150.201) [20:16:46] k [20:16:48] cool [20:17:01] I'm definitely late [20:17:01]