[00:32:01] excuses [00:32:07] we finished that at like 3 AM [00:34:16] lol [01:10:30] well i'm also fighting with jupyter notebook [01:23:32] clinth: what are you doing? [01:24:27] I have some experience with jupyter. Had to dig into their code to figure out parts of their messaging spec that were vague. [01:24:38] ah, i'm just an idiot lol [01:29:54] this stupid anaconda distribution has this "nbpresent" extension [01:30:03] and i was just clicking the wrong button on the toolbar [11:03:57] *** Quits: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) (shutting down) [11:08:34] *** Joins: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) [11:08:34] *** tepper.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ [13:27:01] *** Quits: emsal (~em@S0106602ad0902520.vc.shawcable.net) (*.net *.split) [13:29:12] *** Joins: emsal (~em@S0106602ad0902520.vc.shawcable.net) [13:34:05] *** Quits: JackMc (sid85402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uiyrdqhyosptyots) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [13:35:37] *** Joins: JackMc (sid85402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-skrnewwcmrfgssds) [18:17:48] sivoais: solution to that perl problem is somewhere in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_u3C2WwQ0 [18:17:48] Title: The Perl Jam 2: The Camel Strikes Back [32c3] [18:17:50] watching it now [18:40:39] omg sivoais you have to watch this [18:43:03] hey gsingh93 are you able/willing to refer people to facebook? ;p [18:43:15] depends [18:43:27] if you were shrunk and put in a blender, what would you do? [18:44:18] is someone turning the blender on? [18:47:02] yes [18:47:29] probably scream at an ultrasonic frequency? :p [18:50:10] good enough [18:50:40] so i can refer people, but to be honest i have to say how much i really know them and what we've worked together on [18:50:45] and in this case that's pretty much nothing [18:50:50] haha yea [18:51:17] no worries :p [18:52:14] lol sounds about right :-P [18:52:51] i'm mostly just looking for my resume to be thrown into the abyss so I can say I tried :p [18:53:32] (but on a more serious note, there will be recruiters at the out for undergrad conference next weekend, and that's probably my best shot. diversity etc..?) [18:58:24] gsingh93: I saw his old one and it was a total mess. Not sure what to expect this time. [19:11:58] lol, this is all coming from not understanding how Perl is used now. Bugzilla is really old and well-known buggy code [19:12:18] he is also not using strict, warnings, Safe, or Perl::Critic [19:12:26] all of which catch these kind of things [19:36:10] sivoais: the fact those aren't on by default says a lot [19:36:32] not to mention the exploitable code was on the perl docs themselves [19:37:19] gsingh93: but it says at the top of those docs not to use that module [19:37:24] perldoc CGI [19:38:00] they can't be put on by default since Perl needs to have backcompat for 25 years of code [19:39:02] other languages break old code all the time, but Perl5 tries to remain stable even if it means more work for the core devs [19:39:34] they take any changes made to the language and test it against all public code on CPAN every day [19:40:12] some of that code was from when CPAN was first started in 1996 [21:35:19] in my opinion, that's a mistake [21:52:31] eh, not when a core perl philosophy encourages solving problems in as many ways as possible [22:16:46] even better, the presenter took an example from the docs and edited to be vulnerable and he said he RTFM'd [22:16:59] this presentation would have been good to have in ... 1999 [22:17:40] (1999? when people still wrote perl? :p) [22:17:44] because most of these issues were well-known back then and the language has changed to push people away from bad decisions [22:18:16] They still do. Git uses Perl. Haskell's build system uses Perl. [22:18:56] athenahealth is a perl shop and they're "unbreaking" healthcare [22:19:20] yeah, I've seen them at conferences. They also use C#, iirc [22:20:25] I think they do, at least a little bit [22:20:35] but I'm pretty sure their emr is a perl web app [22:21:06] There's a lot odd design decisions in Perl5 that should have done differently, but pointing to well-known problems in old code is pretty disingenuous. [22:22:45] Also, many of the presenter's examples aren't even valid Perl and don't do what he says they do. [22:26:16] There is plenty of bad Perl code out there, but that's more of a function of how old Perl is. It was the first killer app language for the Web, so a lot of early tutorials are there and they have a high PageRank. [22:27:10] But if you point at that as idiomatic Perl... no, just no. People were criticising that kind of code back then too. [22:28:36] If you check stackoverflow, you'll see problematic code in every language surprisingly often. And people copy and paste that into production. [22:30:04] It's like that binary search bug that involves an overflow. Subtle bugs that keep propagating because people don't understand the edge cases. [22:30:16] indeed [22:30:30] I have run into people using non-generic containers in C# in new code [22:43:47] clinth: as in, vectors etc of Object? [22:46:48] we wouldn't call it a vector in C#, but yeah :) [22:52:56] * sivoais needs an browser extension for programmers that visually shows bit-rot on old code examples [22:53:16] might also be good for editors [23:24:00] sivoais: if i want to see the bit rot of code that should be dead all i need to do is visit the india c group [23:33:46] oh god